Is Drupal Full of Sexist Pigs?
Submitted by LizaK on July 8, 2009 - 00:09
Your session in a few words:
Exploring why there are so few women in Drupal, why it matters, & what can be done.
Date:
July 1, 2011 - 01:40
Track:
From zero to hero
Session Type:
Panel
Level of expertise:
Beginner
Language:
English Update: this session is being withdrawn as of August 4th.
With less than four weeks before this international conference, I don't know:
_If this session will be chosen
_If it is chosen, what day it would be scheduled.
This leaves it impossible for me to schedule around the first week of school for my child. This is disappointing, but I am left having to make this choice.
******************
While we have some of the most kick ass women in the planet here in Drupal, we're also guilty of some some stupid sexist stuff, too.
Come watch a fun (yes, fun) presentation on what debacles have taken place in Drupal (and other OS communities as well), hear from some awesome Drupalchix about their own experiences, and decide for yourself if you care. If you do, we'll give you a few suggestions on how to help.
Moderator - Liza Kindred
Lullabot's Business Director
Katherine Druckman
Webmistress, Linux Journal
Angie "webchick" Byron
Lullabot Ninja
Drupal 7 Co-Maintainer
Crystal Williams
Vice President, Professional Services, WorkHabit
Drupal event guru
Co presenters:
Looking at the title & the
Looking at the title & the gender of the presenters
- It could look like its only possible for men to be sexist? or am I just totally overreacting here ;)
Well said...
Morten said exactly what my most immediate thought was.
I don't like the idea this session. I wish there was a way to vote a session down.
I wish there were more women interested in Drupal or CMS or programming or computers. I would definitely be happy if more women would come to DrupalCon.
But there are much more men interested in it than women.
overreacting
Mortendk and tierecke, I think you are overreacting.
Is the question not allowed to be raised?
The power of various groups is greatly important to how we interpret statements. In the open source software context, being a small minority is not a position of power (well, with the exception of Webchick this release cycle!). The numbers are prima facie evidence of a problem, and to challenge how the question is raised is not good.
I'm hoping, with the use of "gossip and bitch", that tierecke's post is parody. But I fear it is not, and that satire is, indeed, officially redundant.
benjamin, Agaric
a very usual mistake when the
a very usual mistake when the topic are gender based is to make it in to a a "us" vs. "them" debate.
By having a panel of presenters that only based upon one gender, and a title that have the same gender theme could very easily be misunderstood if someone wants to misunderstand it ("wheres louise")
so i hope the presenters are aware of this :)
btw the the answer to the title is: No were not sexist - were sexy geeks!
Personally im looking forward to a good laugh, and hopefully not a looong speech about double oppression (or triple)
But shoudnt this be a bof? - or is it so important for the community to have the big gender debate?
... and for the record I still objectify women, and men (if they are as hot as Brüno)
omg - just saw Brüno
so hot
Again I agree with Morten
I am also a minority!!!!!
How many people on Drupal grew up in Netanya, Israel? I bet not many!!!!
Are there any Parisian pigs on DrupalCon? What about American swines? I want protection from them!!!!!
I don't find how gender plays any role in a conference. I don't look to "abuse my power" as being from the large majority. I don't share any special sympathy to my colleagues from the male gender.
No, it was not a parody asking if they're going to bitch about men, because I don't see any content possible for such a session, at least not any valuable.
Not overreacting
I don't think Mortendk and tierecke are overreacting. They're saying exactly what I'm feeling. I strongly dislike the language used in the title of this presentation.
As Mortendk said, we don't want to turn this into an "us vs them" debate. People of both genders are guilty of gender insensitivity and discrimination. The title of this session being an example.
Drupal already has one of the highest ratio of participating woman than other technical projects. I'd prefer to explore what are we doing right? And how can we harness that better?
Careful
Try not to be too strong. I don't want the pendulum to swing towards the other direction.
More ideas
I think it'd be interesting to get Laura Scott in on the panel from pingVision. Admittedly I'm one of her loyal minions, but I think she'd have an interesting perspective on the matter.
I guarantee that this
I guarantee that this submission will get the most comments! ;-)
Please change post title?
If you're serious about making positive changes, we need to promote a positive attitude.
Considering the title: are you making some kind of antagonistic joke? Or trying to start a flame war?
I hope the members of this panel aren't going to try and represent the DrupalChix group in this discussion. Is the DrupalChix logo going to be used in association with this panel? I'd hope not.
I am really surprised that such leaders in the Drupal community would be associated with this. It really brings the mood down.
I read the title and all I could think was: "Is this for real??"
the humor(less) sex(ists)
I support the session wholeheartedly. It's one of many dozen at Drupalcon. It's directly relevant to the community's mood and attitudes.
I really do not want to get over-analytical, but I suspect the title is a joke meant to ridicule the stereotype of feminist and sexist totalitarianism. ("Men are pigs! Women are not a joke!" and "Feminists and womanists can't take a joke! We love women!") I think it's meant to break down some of the resistance to discussing the topic. Maybe it's not intelligible as a joke for everyone, especially outside of the American context. I don't know.
I don't predict that these panelists will show up with knives and axes. I trust that they're careful, thoughtful and sincere.
hm, food for thought
i trust you on this one, bangpound. yet i sense it would be misinterpreted? this can rouse some rabble, sure, incite debate and comment, sure but do you feel it will be productive/fruitful? feh.
maybe the description can drop a clue for ppl like me who didn't get the joke. i suppose they'll get it if they read the comments now.
always the last one to get the joke,
le sigh.
You get my support
Whole-heartedly. I have nothing but the highest respect for the female rockstars I've met through Drupal.
Only the sad thing is, that I feel that there's more discrimination and misunderstanding towards design and usability.
Quite honestly, I have never felt less empowered as a creative than in the Drupal community. It's beaten the fight out of me.
One battle at a time...
Comparisons! Yes!!!
I think it would be great to have a panel that compared sexism (in any community) to usability design- the comparison is just so apt! Maybe then we could discuss how removing $op from various places was similar to ending slavery, or how the Drupal hooks give developers freedoms similar to when women got the right to vote.
I can't wait to travel to Paris, and since it's so similar to traveling to another galaxy I think I'll change my title to "Astronaut".
Maybe the title should be changed
Since part of the point of this session will surely be that words matter – read Douglas Hofstadter for a bracing satire of sexism in language that implies far more radical changes than anything that will be proposed here – perhaps the title should be changed.
Does anyone in the Drupal community really think that Angie or Liza will stand up there and answer "Yes, Drupal is full of sexist pigs."? (At least, before they were asked not to bring it up or move it to a BoF!)
Yet apparently the title is inflammatory. Women I respect greatly – I have a "Trust Women" sticker on my laptop from one of them – have said the critics of this session are not overreacting. But to read the description of the session, there is nothing offensive.
Too few women in Drupal? Heck yeah. Can we maybe try to do something about it? Let's try.
I encourage everyone to watch Angie Byron's talk on women in open source before deciding there's nothing to discuss.
In a large and task-diverse project like Drupal, low percentages of any group are on their face evidence of a problem. One point of Angie's presentation, and I'm sure this panel also, is that doing things to help women get involved and stay involved with Drupal means helping all people get with Drupal (we have a session proposal for that too). We have strikingly few blacks, latinos, and first peoples at conferences also— this doesn't mean we have a racism problem, but it is certainly a marker for a problem. In the U.S. context, the larger and less visible problem may be one of economic class— pointing to a fantastic opportunity to find a way to introduce more people to the no-college-degree-needed learning curve and career path of Drupal. The point is to not ignore the problem.
As Kathleen (ceardach) points out, when it comes to female participation we are doing things right (especially compared to other parts of the internet) and this session – and its title – could set a more positive, constructive tone for the task ahead. Even if it is just a title.
Peace. And justice.
- ben, agaric
Some of my fellow males could be a little less thin-skinned
After reading some of the "this is reverse sexism" griping in this thread, I'd like to throw in my two cents.
First, I think it's obvious that the title of this session is intended to be provocative and humorous. It's posed as a question, not as an answer, and the actual description of the session (aside from the title) contains nothing that anyone should find objectionable.
Second, I only know one of the presenters (Angie Byron, aka webchick). I don't know her very well personally, but every time I've seen her speak I've been impressed. (My one direct personal experience with her was during DrupalCon 2008 in Boston, when she helped me figure out a problem I was having using CVS.) I've also seen her speak on a couple of panels. If you want to see her in action, check out this video where she explains how to build a Basecamp clone in Drupal:
http://www.doitwithdrupal.com/free-videos
Watch the video, and I think you'll agree that she's level-headed, friendly, smart and generally well-liked within the Drupal community. If she has some concerns about the way women are represented within that community, she's certainly entitled to air those concerns. As for the fact that all the panelists are women, I've been to a number of DrupalCon panels where all of the panelists were men, and I never heard anyone cry foul about that. If someone thinks they have a male perspective that would improve this particular panel, they could contact the existing panelists and offer to participate. Otherwise, just decide whether or not you want to attend, and take a chill pill about the title.